1049 - Turkish Holiday

4th Sep 2015, 12:00 PM in 2015
Turkish Holiday
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Author Notes:

Tim 4th Sep 2015, 12:00 PM edit delete
Little late to the party with this one - David Cameron's already agreed to take on a few thousand refugees from Syrian camps, as opposed to the couple hundred we had taken on already (which was stunningly pathetic next to the numbers places like Germany had taken on), and while that's still a token gesture compared to the scale of the problem, it's definitely a start.

I'm just glad that we're actually starting to call it a refugee crisis now - the word "migrant" seemed like a crass attempt to lump these people in with economic immigrants like those moving around from within Europe. For so long, the British press had been treating these people with the same disdain as they treated people from Poland or Romania, even though their circumstances were wildly different. It almost felt offensive to consider the two to even be remotely comparable beyond the "person from one place who is now in another" part of it.

It still irks me a little though that the charity I most want to support related to this has "migrant" in their name (MOAS: Migrant Offshore Aid Station, a ship that rescues refugee boats), but I guess they did pick that name back when "migrant" was the only word the media/government/EU was using.

Speaking of, if I got a bunch of "Refugees Welcome" badges printed and sold them to raise money for MOAS, would anyone reading this get one?


Odoacer 7th Sep 2015, 3:55 PM edit delete reply
some food for thought: https://translate.google.pl/translate?hl=pl&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fm.niezalezna.pl%2F70607-granica-z-austria-wstrzasajaca-relacja-polaka-z-autokaru-napadnietego-przez-imigrantow

Tim 7th Sep 2015, 11:08 PM edit delete reply
Evidence required.
Odoacer 9th Sep 2015, 11:41 AM edit delete reply


Odoacer 9th Sep 2015, 11:49 AM edit delete reply
Is this the Europe you want to live in? The Europe you want your children and grandchildren to grow up in?
Tim 9th Sep 2015, 7:54 PM edit delete reply
Europe's already like this, even before mass migration. Riots sometimes happen after football games, I've been assaulted in the street before (and no, not by an immigrant). Teens making a threat to a camera? Man if I had £1 for every time someone at my secondary school said they were going to kill someone, I could probably buy a house. Hell, I watched the 2011 London riots unfold on live TV! No race or nationality has a monopoly on violent thugs, and pretending like the things in these videos are typical of the people escaping war zones is nonsense.

I will not be bowed by xenophobic propoganda.

Also, d'you know what "Allahu ackbar" means? It means "God is the greatest". Ever been to a church? That kind of line is in every single damn song they sing, so I don't see those people on the train any differently than I see white American Christian summer camps.
Odoacer 9th Sep 2015, 10:06 PM edit delete reply
It is not xenophobic to want to preserve one's own culture and heritage, and to ensure that my children and grandchildren are able to experience the same freedoms that I have been fortunate enough to enjoy. I have sympathy for people fleeing war zones, but surely you realise that a huge influx of muslim migrants combined with Europe's low birth rates will lead to the extinction of the European people and culture. In its place will be an Islamic culture. If you see nothing wrong with this, I ask you which currently Islamic country would you like to live in? Currently, low replacement level birth rates in native Europeans coupled with mass immigration will make native Europeans a minority as early as 2035 in their own countries. If you want to see how a white minority is treated by other cultures, try visiting South Africa. Furthermore, the vast majority of these refugees are young males. Where are their families?

You seem to have done a good job at being bowed by the propaganda of the media to champion and cheer on the destruction of your own heritage.
Tim 10th Sep 2015, 2:02 AM edit delete reply
Same as the influx of Caribbean immigrants made the UK Jamaican, or the influx of Indian immigrants made us learn Hindi, or the influx of Eastern European immigrants has got everyone eating whatever it is Eastern Europeans stereotypically eat. When large numbers of people from one place move to another, the integration rate 2-3 generations after the first one is usually pretty damn high. Yes, they leave their mark - that's why we have Sudoku, or Chicken Tikka Masala, and I think both of those are pretty great. The greatest threat to our freedom comes not from people on the lowest rung scraping by, but from those in positions of power and influence who wish to use their power and influence to accumulate more power and influence. In a question of "who's doing damage", look to people with power.

And South Africa is hardly a fair comparison, when the white people were not native to the country - they came at a time when us Europeans were gallivanting around the world committing genocides and sticking flags in things. European colonialism is hardly comparable to African/Middle Eastern migration/asylum seeking.

And I hardly think that's what the media's been doing. Even if you accept the "they're coming to erase our culture" narrative, the media was entirely on your guys' side until that photo of Aylan was published. The Express, the Mail and the bloody Prime Minister couldn't hold themselves back describing these people as "a flood" or "a swarm" for months while everyone kept using the word "migrant" to describe blatant refugees.

And honestly, culture will live on. It'll change - it always does. It's why we don't have marriage at 12 or animal sacrifice in Europe anymore. Someone living in the UK just 2 centuries ago wouldn't recognise half the stuff we consider normal now. Where different peoples meet, the culture adjusts to exchange different bits and pieces of the culture between them, and I don't see that as an inherently bad thing. That, to me, is a naturally occurring evolution that has happened in every culture across human history. We won't magically become Islamic, and honestly, people have been worrying about white people becoming a minority ever since we got enough perspective to realise that, globally, we already are a minority.

And you know what, if my culture is ok leaving innocent people to drown on the off-chance they might be bad, I don't think I'm too attached to it anyway.
Odoacer 10th Sep 2015, 9:19 PM edit delete reply
The difference is that Jamaican, Indian and Eastern European immigrants have never been forecast to become the majority population in the UK, they have each remained a minority group. Muslims have been projected to become the majority population of Europe for a number of years, and this huge influx of refugees will speed up the process.

You may think Chicken Tikka Masala and Sudoku are great, but I doubt you feel the same way about honour killings and female genital mutilation, both of which are already common occurrences within the UK thanks to the 'cultural enrichment' brought to us by Muslim immigrants. No, we won't magically become Islamic overnight, but at the same time these refugees and migrants will not magically become European either. They will always prioritise their religious identity over their new European citizenship. Have you not considered that once Muslims are the majority population in European countries, they will become the people with power and influence? Britain is currently predicted to have a majority Muslim population by 2050, a population that could elect a Muslim government for Muslim interests.

I find it ironic that progressives defend and support mass Islamic immigration, when this religion is a serious threat to other progressive ideas and values (feminism, gay rights) that the UK and Europe have rightly embraced. Under Islam, Europe will crumble and become a misogynistic, homophobic, superstitious hell hole and everything European society has created will be destroyed.

You did not answer my question in my previous post, which currently Islamic country would you be happy to live in?
Tim 11th Sep 2015, 2:52 PM edit delete reply
The population of the European Union is currently about 500 million, of which 2% is already Muslim - that makes around 10 million in the whole EU. Do you seriously believe the 485 million Muslims are on their way to Europe? Only 4 million people have left Syria, and only 300-400k have made their way into Europe. That's a drop in the ocean. By comparison, 7% of the EU is Atheist - making that 35 million.

Unless the local population of the EU drops by 250 million or the Muslim population explodes by 485 million, I'm not going to be losing any sleep over this.

And I didn't answer the question because it's irrelevant. This isn't about Muslims in Muslim countries - many of which it's the West's fault for helping destabilise in the first place that created all the refugees you're so scared of.

All of the projections surrounding populations assume an exponential increase on existing trends and assume that the rate stays the same for decades on end, which I find highly unrealistic. Of course there's a trend towards them coming here at the moment. Have you been following what's been happening the last 5 years? I'd want to get out of there too if I were them. But once things stabilise, the guns stop, and the dust settles, I'll bet you we start to see a significant slow down in the numbers coming - and perhaps even a reverse effect where people who came to the EU during the upheavals start to return as things go back to normal. It's happened before - the Polish population stopped growing so fast here in the UK once the Polish economy recovered, and a friend of mine from secondary school moved back to Zimbabwe since it recovered from the hyperinflation problems.

And in any case, we're way off topic! Refugees return home in much higher proportions than normal immigrants, and as soon as whoever wins in Syria and Iraq gets their shit together, we'll start to see refugees returning to rebuild. Refugees should not be considered a permanent addition to the EU population, but more of a temporary fluctuation. They should not be confused with regular immigration.
Discord_Lexia 5th Apr 2016, 7:00 AM edit delete reply
I have no money, but if I can help in some other way I'd love to.